Talking with Techies - Matt Hawkins
Welcome to Talking with Techies; a new segment on my blog where I interview all sorts of interesting members of the tech industry to gain knowledge, advice and an insight into different sectors of this industry. For this first post, I talked with Matt Hawkins, a tech entrepreneur who aims to use his businesses to change the world. Matt has founded multiple successful companies and is a huge advocate for 'Tech for Good'. In this interview, I wanted to find out his secrets to a successful business venture, how he progressed in this industry and what his latest business aims to do. Matt also allowed me to record this interview so you're reading direct quotes and advice from a business expert!
Can you tell me a bit about what you do?
So we build software that makes better use of computers. So when computers, PCs, laptops, mobile phones aren't being used we build software that can turn that sort of spare processing power into money for the user and also so that people who are currently spending lots of money with Amazon and Google and the other providers can save lots of money on Cloud computing.
Is this utilising a computer nobody is using at all or could it be happening in the background?
So only about 1/3 of the time devices are actually used and then the rest of the time they're just sat there usually still turned on. So we're making use of all that spare capacity... Basically Air BnB for Cloud computing!
Are you working with cryptocurrency to pay users?
Well, that's part of it. The device can do anything when it's not being used; blockchain, computing workloads. It can pay them in cryptocurrency like Bitcoin or even in Steam vouchers if the user was a gamer.
So, is this aimed at companies/ bigger clients or individuals?
There are two sides to it; you have suppliers and buyers. So a supplier is someone who has a computer. Gaming PCs are great because they're usually high need processors and graphics. We're hoping to bring out a PlayStation version soon to maximise that. On the other side, you've got for suppliers for businesses, for example, Cloud providers. They have lots of spare capacity, they run from 30 to 50% of the time. So when it's not being used, they can monetise that. And on the buying side, people who buy these Cloud services, it's substantially cheaper. Also, it means that at the moment there is so much being spent building new data centres and cloud platforms when there's actually enough computing in the world to already provide to demands. It's a greener way of not having to keep building brand new buildings; let's use what we've got. When our mobile phone version comes out later in the year, you've got 8 hours where it's plugged into power at night doing nothing.
Did you always see yourself going into the tech industry?
I think I was either five or six when I got my first programming book. Games were on tape back then and I had a 64K games PC. You could go and buy the tapes but because the games we so simple, you could code them as well. I got a games coding book and learnt the basics and started writing games. I had awful handwriting so I was much better naturally on a computer than on paper! I mean it wasn't really until the mid-90s when the internet started taking off and I was like 'Wow I wish this had been around when I was a kid'. I had a software business when I was about 15 and I was buying software and computers and then selling them in computing magazines. Then in university, I began building computers and selling them to companies to basically pay off my university fees.
So, you've always been entrepreneurial?
Well yes; when I was around 5 my mum used to go to the Cash-and-Carry and get sweets really cheap. I would spend my pocket money on them and, with my little plastic till, sell sweets to my neighbours.
What was university life like for you?
I went to Brunel University, in Middlesex and studied a computing and business degree. Throughout my GCSEs and A-Levels, there was always an obvious split of I was good at business and Computer Science. The degree was the same; you learn about the marketing, the finances and everything for running a company and then you learn about the programming, the computer science needed to build say software or networking solutions.
What's your opinion on universities v apprenticeships v degree apprenticeships?
I think it's changed a lot now because there's so much information online. You can learn everything without even having to go to university. So if I had the choice now, I probably wouldn't go. I think the social life is amazing and is another three or four years of fun. So I think the best reasons for going are fun, gives you a balance of learning a bit of everything and helps you decide what you want to do. But, if you already know what you want to do, you can learn it just on YouTube. It depends on if you want to work for yourself doing entrepreneurial type things or if you'd rather work for a company or somebody else. I think it's quite different if you want to work for yourself and there's not really a point of university because usually by that point you have an idea of what you want to do. In which case, in those four years, you can build quite a big business. It's a great time to start because you'll still be living with your parents or living with low costs so you don't have to worry about covering basic living costs. Again, if you've got time at university, you could start a company.
Do you think as an employer you're more likely to hire someone who's been in university for four years or someone's who's been in work for four years?
Definitely, someone who's worked for four years, for me. That's the other thing with going to university, your profession is probably going to be 20% learning and you'll learn lots of other side things as they try and mature you as a person. There's not a lot of time in the week that you're actually studying whereas working you're learning all the time. If you just go to somebody who's good at mentoring and just training you up, then you'll learn a lot more in more jobs. The other thing is you can do courses in your spare time when working for someone. If you look at a university degree, it's split into like 8 different courses per term. If you decide you only want to study 20 of them, learn those instead in your own time. I guess for programming, I would much prefer someone who's done four years of programming and really good experience in creating platforms and sites for other people.; it's not just to their standards, it's judged by others. When you come out of university you have little to no experience unless you've done a year in industry. Maybe data and science-based degrees are more useful.
You are the CEO and founder of CUDO, so how did you progress to where you are today and what do you owe your success to?
Well, it's easy to be a CEO if you start your own company! The first proper company I started was C4L, in 2000. I had full-time staff and at that point, you're responsible for other people not just yourself and their salary and survival. The pressure instantly arrives as you have to make sure everyone's paid before you get paid and things change massively. It's down to choosing a growing sector; don't ever start something in a sector that's flat or shrinking because then you've got to go against the curve. With a growing sector, you don't have to be doing that well to grow at the same rate. So choose a fast-growing sector with a big market share as well. A real niche sector doesn't have a big market cap so being 0.1% of a big sector is much more beneficial than being 10% of a niche sector. However, try and choose something that isn't well commoditised and people can't do out of their bedrooms. For example, web design is really challenging because so many developers have popped up that are on freelance and running from their bedroom. Therefore, competitive space is really hard to justify from your figures. Once you get to a big size, you can get the big customers but when you're small it's really hard to grow past that. If you can get into a sector that has a high barrier for entry, then you're onto a real winner.
What was it like setting up a company?
It's dead easy when it's just a few of you. You still have to learn how to do finances and HR and all the operational bits. There's also debt collection and making sure you can pay everyone at the end of the month. I would say I got to around 12 people when I joined a group of directors that got together every month and we would go through different things like HR or marketing or business structure. If we also had any queries about a new product we were bringing into the market, for example, then that was also discussed. And that was remarkable. There was a guy called Christopher Bayliss who taught me a lot doing that. I think going to that for a few years was key to the success of growing the company. Your company structure has to be different when you hit about 12 people because before then everyone can just talk to you and you can communicate with everybody. But after that, you need management because theoretically, you can only have 8 direct reports to do it properly. The skills of a director and a manager are completely different. Managers are more operational and looking in whereas Directors are more looking out. And then every time you're bringing in a new layer of management you're adding 15-20% costs to your company. There's a lot of learning as you start a business.
Why did you want to first create a start-up businesses? What inspired you?
My first company C4L actually started as a web design company for clubbing sites; a platform to share videos and photos from nights out before Facebook was a thing. So then I was approached by clubs to build their websites in exchange for VIP passes! And that's when I decided I could start a company around it. When the sites became really popular and we had to do our own hosting, I bought a few servers to manage that. I then realised I was only using a small percentage of what I was actually buying. I then had to go to lots of different suppliers where I found many people had the same problem of overspending. So I packaged it up and went back to the data company and showed them we could offer a better service for their customers. They then started sending over leads which we won around 80% of the time. So I changed it to an infrastructure company which was a better business model and lead us to grow into 50 data centres around the country. Long story short, I have a passion for business and a passion for IT so it came naturally.
Why do you think Technology is so important in today's society? And why are you such an advocate for 'Tech for Good'?
When I sold C4l, I started Cudo as a 'Tech for Good' company with a few main goals. One was we wanted to be able to get users to donate all of their spare processing power to charity or the computing power can be used for cancer research. By making use of all that spare power, it's more environmentally friendly with reduced carbon emissions. So I started it purely on the charity side but we would still have lots of overheads we'd have to cover with the charities money. That's when we created a more commercial platform as to not take from the charities. I wanted to build a company that could sustain itself and 100% of the profits go to these charities.
How do you stay relevant and up to date on emerging technologies?
Youtube and Twitter! I just subscribe to relevant channels and spend an hour a day on the industry and technology. Anything computing-based (data science, hardware). I follow a lot around any data technology basically.
What new technology are you most excited to see develop and even utilise?
We're really a distributed Amazon as far as Cloud Computing goes so we are starting to work with companies who have decentralised cloud computing. AI is a perfect example where traditionally it needs to be centralised to get high performance. However, some companies have managed to split it up without lowering performance and as we have a large distributed network in over 100 countries then that's absolutely perfect. There's also 3D rendering where platforms have done the same. So it's working with companies like that. We have built a platform to utilise spare computing power but we need this distributive software to put on it.
What's the biggest challenge you've faced so far in the tech industry?
I would say the 2008 market crash. We were growing really quick and then the crash happened; everything stopped. Customers went bust and we had to let people go just to survive. You aim to keep a stable trajectory so when something falls off the end, there's a lot of lessons to learn in the sort of 18 months it took to recover. You need to assume that things like that are going to happen. Crashed like that happen every 8-12 years and if you look at patterns in the markets long term, you can be ready for it. Don't run a company like everything could go wrong. It might mean you grow a bit slower but you're not risking it right to the edge so you have a safety margin for situations like that.
Finally, what are you doing to fill your time in this isolation period?
Business as usual really; not much has changed. We actually put ourselves into lockdown a few weeks before they announced it. That meant if we hit any obstacles in the meantime, we could still go in and sort them out. Whereas a lot of companies seemed surprised it happened. So we've all been pretty much the same. We already used Zoom and Slack and Google Drive. I think pretty much any recently started company is built like that online now and it doesn't matter where you are anymore. We're just doing loads of Zoom chats with customers and internally.
And these were all the questions I asked Matt. Going into this, I had basic knowledge of cloud computing and little to no knowledge on the business side of technology. However, after talking to Matt, listening to his advice, I feel I have learnt so much about creating a stable business, how to be successful and also how utilising 'Tech for Good' is key in modern-day society. Hopefully, like me, you have also enjoyed listening to Matt's successes and it has inspired you to research more into the world of business and technology. I'd like to give a huge thank you to Matt Hawkins for giving up time in his day to have a chat and share such invaluable knowledge.
Welcome to Talking with Techies; a new segment on my blog where I interview all sorts of interesting members of the tech industry to gain knowledge, advice and an insight into different sectors of this industry. For this first post, I talked with Matt Hawkins, a tech entrepreneur who aims to use his businesses to change the world. Matt has founded multiple successful companies and is a huge advocate for 'Tech for Good'. In this interview, I wanted to find out his secrets to a successful business venture, how he progressed in this industry and what his latest business aims to do. Matt also allowed me to record this interview so you're reading direct quotes and advice from a business expert!Can you tell me a bit about what you do?
So we build software that makes better use of computers. So when computers, PCs, laptops, mobile phones aren't being used we build software that can turn that sort of spare processing power into money for the user and also so that people who are currently spending lots of money with Amazon and Google and the other providers can save lots of money on Cloud computing.
Is this utilising a computer nobody is using at all or could it be happening in the background?
So only about 1/3 of the time devices are actually used and then the rest of the time they're just sat there usually still turned on. So we're making use of all that spare capacity... Basically Air BnB for Cloud computing!
Are you working with cryptocurrency to pay users?
Well, that's part of it. The device can do anything when it's not being used; blockchain, computing workloads. It can pay them in cryptocurrency like Bitcoin or even in Steam vouchers if the user was a gamer.
So, is this aimed at companies/ bigger clients or individuals?
There are two sides to it; you have suppliers and buyers. So a supplier is someone who has a computer. Gaming PCs are great because they're usually high need processors and graphics. We're hoping to bring out a PlayStation version soon to maximise that. On the other side, you've got for suppliers for businesses, for example, Cloud providers. They have lots of spare capacity, they run from 30 to 50% of the time. So when it's not being used, they can monetise that. And on the buying side, people who buy these Cloud services, it's substantially cheaper. Also, it means that at the moment there is so much being spent building new data centres and cloud platforms when there's actually enough computing in the world to already provide to demands. It's a greener way of not having to keep building brand new buildings; let's use what we've got. When our mobile phone version comes out later in the year, you've got 8 hours where it's plugged into power at night doing nothing.
Did you always see yourself going into the tech industry?
I think I was either five or six when I got my first programming book. Games were on tape back then and I had a 64K games PC. You could go and buy the tapes but because the games we so simple, you could code them as well. I got a games coding book and learnt the basics and started writing games. I had awful handwriting so I was much better naturally on a computer than on paper! I mean it wasn't really until the mid-90s when the internet started taking off and I was like 'Wow I wish this had been around when I was a kid'. I had a software business when I was about 15 and I was buying software and computers and then selling them in computing magazines. Then in university, I began building computers and selling them to companies to basically pay off my university fees.
So, you've always been entrepreneurial?
Well yes; when I was around 5 my mum used to go to the Cash-and-Carry and get sweets really cheap. I would spend my pocket money on them and, with my little plastic till, sell sweets to my neighbours.
What was university life like for you?
I went to Brunel University, in Middlesex and studied a computing and business degree. Throughout my GCSEs and A-Levels, there was always an obvious split of I was good at business and Computer Science. The degree was the same; you learn about the marketing, the finances and everything for running a company and then you learn about the programming, the computer science needed to build say software or networking solutions.
What's your opinion on universities v apprenticeships v degree apprenticeships?
I think it's changed a lot now because there's so much information online. You can learn everything without even having to go to university. So if I had the choice now, I probably wouldn't go. I think the social life is amazing and is another three or four years of fun. So I think the best reasons for going are fun, gives you a balance of learning a bit of everything and helps you decide what you want to do. But, if you already know what you want to do, you can learn it just on YouTube. It depends on if you want to work for yourself doing entrepreneurial type things or if you'd rather work for a company or somebody else. I think it's quite different if you want to work for yourself and there's not really a point of university because usually by that point you have an idea of what you want to do. In which case, in those four years, you can build quite a big business. It's a great time to start because you'll still be living with your parents or living with low costs so you don't have to worry about covering basic living costs. Again, if you've got time at university, you could start a company.
Do you think as an employer you're more likely to hire someone who's been in university for four years or someone's who's been in work for four years?
Definitely, someone who's worked for four years, for me. That's the other thing with going to university, your profession is probably going to be 20% learning and you'll learn lots of other side things as they try and mature you as a person. There's not a lot of time in the week that you're actually studying whereas working you're learning all the time. If you just go to somebody who's good at mentoring and just training you up, then you'll learn a lot more in more jobs. The other thing is you can do courses in your spare time when working for someone. If you look at a university degree, it's split into like 8 different courses per term. If you decide you only want to study 20 of them, learn those instead in your own time. I guess for programming, I would much prefer someone who's done four years of programming and really good experience in creating platforms and sites for other people.; it's not just to their standards, it's judged by others. When you come out of university you have little to no experience unless you've done a year in industry. Maybe data and science-based degrees are more useful.
You are the CEO and founder of CUDO, so how did you progress to where you are today and what do you owe your success to?
Well, it's easy to be a CEO if you start your own company! The first proper company I started was C4L, in 2000. I had full-time staff and at that point, you're responsible for other people not just yourself and their salary and survival. The pressure instantly arrives as you have to make sure everyone's paid before you get paid and things change massively. It's down to choosing a growing sector; don't ever start something in a sector that's flat or shrinking because then you've got to go against the curve. With a growing sector, you don't have to be doing that well to grow at the same rate. So choose a fast-growing sector with a big market share as well. A real niche sector doesn't have a big market cap so being 0.1% of a big sector is much more beneficial than being 10% of a niche sector. However, try and choose something that isn't well commoditised and people can't do out of their bedrooms. For example, web design is really challenging because so many developers have popped up that are on freelance and running from their bedroom. Therefore, competitive space is really hard to justify from your figures. Once you get to a big size, you can get the big customers but when you're small it's really hard to grow past that. If you can get into a sector that has a high barrier for entry, then you're onto a real winner.
What was it like setting up a company?
It's dead easy when it's just a few of you. You still have to learn how to do finances and HR and all the operational bits. There's also debt collection and making sure you can pay everyone at the end of the month. I would say I got to around 12 people when I joined a group of directors that got together every month and we would go through different things like HR or marketing or business structure. If we also had any queries about a new product we were bringing into the market, for example, then that was also discussed. And that was remarkable. There was a guy called Christopher Bayliss who taught me a lot doing that. I think going to that for a few years was key to the success of growing the company. Your company structure has to be different when you hit about 12 people because before then everyone can just talk to you and you can communicate with everybody. But after that, you need management because theoretically, you can only have 8 direct reports to do it properly. The skills of a director and a manager are completely different. Managers are more operational and looking in whereas Directors are more looking out. And then every time you're bringing in a new layer of management you're adding 15-20% costs to your company. There's a lot of learning as you start a business.
Why did you want to first create a start-up businesses? What inspired you?
My first company C4L actually started as a web design company for clubbing sites; a platform to share videos and photos from nights out before Facebook was a thing. So then I was approached by clubs to build their websites in exchange for VIP passes! And that's when I decided I could start a company around it. When the sites became really popular and we had to do our own hosting, I bought a few servers to manage that. I then realised I was only using a small percentage of what I was actually buying. I then had to go to lots of different suppliers where I found many people had the same problem of overspending. So I packaged it up and went back to the data company and showed them we could offer a better service for their customers. They then started sending over leads which we won around 80% of the time. So I changed it to an infrastructure company which was a better business model and lead us to grow into 50 data centres around the country. Long story short, I have a passion for business and a passion for IT so it came naturally.
Why do you think Technology is so important in today's society? And why are you such an advocate for 'Tech for Good'?
When I sold C4l, I started Cudo as a 'Tech for Good' company with a few main goals. One was we wanted to be able to get users to donate all of their spare processing power to charity or the computing power can be used for cancer research. By making use of all that spare power, it's more environmentally friendly with reduced carbon emissions. So I started it purely on the charity side but we would still have lots of overheads we'd have to cover with the charities money. That's when we created a more commercial platform as to not take from the charities. I wanted to build a company that could sustain itself and 100% of the profits go to these charities.
How do you stay relevant and up to date on emerging technologies?
Youtube and Twitter! I just subscribe to relevant channels and spend an hour a day on the industry and technology. Anything computing-based (data science, hardware). I follow a lot around any data technology basically.
What new technology are you most excited to see develop and even utilise?
We're really a distributed Amazon as far as Cloud Computing goes so we are starting to work with companies who have decentralised cloud computing. AI is a perfect example where traditionally it needs to be centralised to get high performance. However, some companies have managed to split it up without lowering performance and as we have a large distributed network in over 100 countries then that's absolutely perfect. There's also 3D rendering where platforms have done the same. So it's working with companies like that. We have built a platform to utilise spare computing power but we need this distributive software to put on it.
What's the biggest challenge you've faced so far in the tech industry?
I would say the 2008 market crash. We were growing really quick and then the crash happened; everything stopped. Customers went bust and we had to let people go just to survive. You aim to keep a stable trajectory so when something falls off the end, there's a lot of lessons to learn in the sort of 18 months it took to recover. You need to assume that things like that are going to happen. Crashed like that happen every 8-12 years and if you look at patterns in the markets long term, you can be ready for it. Don't run a company like everything could go wrong. It might mean you grow a bit slower but you're not risking it right to the edge so you have a safety margin for situations like that.
Finally, what are you doing to fill your time in this isolation period?
Business as usual really; not much has changed. We actually put ourselves into lockdown a few weeks before they announced it. That meant if we hit any obstacles in the meantime, we could still go in and sort them out. Whereas a lot of companies seemed surprised it happened. So we've all been pretty much the same. We already used Zoom and Slack and Google Drive. I think pretty much any recently started company is built like that online now and it doesn't matter where you are anymore. We're just doing loads of Zoom chats with customers and internally.
And these were all the questions I asked Matt. Going into this, I had basic knowledge of cloud computing and little to no knowledge on the business side of technology. However, after talking to Matt, listening to his advice, I feel I have learnt so much about creating a stable business, how to be successful and also how utilising 'Tech for Good' is key in modern-day society. Hopefully, like me, you have also enjoyed listening to Matt's successes and it has inspired you to research more into the world of business and technology. I'd like to give a huge thank you to Matt Hawkins for giving up time in his day to have a chat and share such invaluable knowledge.
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